Hy Alastair,

I think a lot of things are necesseray to build a good congress and it's far away to be easy.

For me one thing is more important than the other, and is to create un understanding of what salsa is, and where it comes from; 

I feel that in Europe and here in Ireland there is a lack of knolewdge about what are the origin of this music in Cuba before it reached USA in 1960 (Cuban Revolution), and what it happened in this Island from 1960 to now SONGO, TIMBA.

And what happen is that we think & dance salsa with an AMERICAN-EUROPEN STYLE ( created ad art for competition....not for fun !!! (where all the original movement has been taken away)..... a good exercice for memory:

• We dance by memory ( whit standardised crap spins )
• We like math don't we 123..567 and.... I would add 9,10..22.....66.....Bingo!!!
• Complytelly without feeling coming from the knowledge of what we are doing!  

I think a lot of peole enjoy what I call (American-European style salsa) because they don't know anything else, and instead to watch tv to get a little bit more braindead at least is better do some math.... 

My apology if someone fells a little bit harmed,

I love u all,

CAMINA,

PA PA PA UN PA PA 

Ciao Camina

I agree with you. There are some parts of your post I dont understand because I dont know enough. I think there is increasing interest for dancing to the meaning and feeling of the music. The thing is that at the beginning we only know what our teachers told us and if that was a simplified 12.etc well thats what we did. Some people will want to research a little more and seek out teachers who relate the history and meaning of the music to the dancing expression of that but then others are happy with 12....etc. If you get the chance check Patrick and Samantha at danceproject.com in Galway. I think they have a great attitude to understanding the roots of the music. I was really pleased to be at a session a while ago on afro-cuban movement wherethe teacher explained the meaning behind the movement and encouraged us to try to feel the meaning and feeling in the movement. Everyone thought it was brilliant(and danced much better after)

If any organisers are reading this i think there's a latent demand for the ideas Camina shared above.

Alastair-good idea on your thread-shame it's now hijacked to a different issue. Maybe the stuff about teaching could go in the thread abut teaching-I posted there some time ago and in essence I agree fully with Camina-nearly every teacher teaches a "pattern". Learning by rote is not the way to understanding. Higher-level competence comes following internalisation.

Back on thread now: The points you make Alastair are all valid but the difficulty is that they present no objective performance indicators-they are simply your wishes and only you can interpret and decide how well they have been satisfied. So let's take the first one and add a performance indicator to it:

Provides timely and accurate information based on an understanding of attendee needs=Provides a printed and online programme at least three months in advance of the congress is satisfactory, six months in advance is optimal.

Creates a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere=(this is a bit more difficult as it's very subjective)Creates a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere by providing name tags for participants who wish to wear them, by instructing the teachers to address students by name, by having the congress team personally meet the participants, by maintaining a help desk during the congress, by responding to emails within 48 hours of receipt, by telling each participant that a named member of the congress team is their "go-to" person and by providing a mobile contact for that person, by using games to involve all dancers at the start and during the party nights, by ensuring that all teachers rotate dancers at least once every 6 minutes during lesson (I could keep going)

Provides teachers across a range of styles and levels=Provides teachers to teach at beginner, improver, intermediate and advanced levels, provides the opportunity for masterclasses, provides the opportunity for one-to-one lessons, provides for cuban, On 1, On 2, On X where X=n+1, n={2,infinity}, provides opportunities to video the teachers, provides on the web site a copy of each lesson that attendees might download after the congress, provides a written note of what was taught at each lesson, provides a description of each lesson's objectives in the congress programme (not just Son-Beginners)

Any way, toast is ready now so I'll leave someone elese to add to these...

I can't really contribute too much as I am someone that already runs a congress but I did want to give a bit of "inside information" on one point:

"Provides timely and accurate information based on an understanding of attendee needs=Provides a printed and online programme at least three months in advance of the congress is satisfactory, six months in advance is optimal."

A lot of congresses (Salsa School included) won't have all of their teachers confirmed at that stage. In our case in particular because we never know exactly how much money we will have to spend until a couple of weeks before the event we only confirmed our last 2 teachers 5 weeks before the congress started.

- Edited by Mike on 24/07/2009 at 21:02

hey westman09

Every time i read your text it just get better & BETTER..

I have to admire you your very outspoken person ..whether i agree or not is another story ..

just keep going because i hope your making us as promoters think what we are doing!! & what can we do better...

Mike, that's a planning issue-and you can address it. Start with your essentials and plan based on your previous numbers plus whatever projections you have done. Do you time-map bookings so you know  that say 20% book within 2 weeks of it being announced, 10% between 2 and 5 weeks, 10% between 5 and 8 weeks, etc etc. That way you will be able to project booking levels. In any undertaking like yours there's an element of risk but you should be hedging to ensure you can still bring it home if projections aren't met. By the way, projections without confidence levels are as useful in my opinion as numbers on the back of an envelope. Your financial plan for the event should enable you to plan and confirm your teachers 3 months in advance. Plus, there are economies that can be achieved by having coherence in your teaching line-up and knowledge of your accommodation, transport, etc etc requirements. there will always be last minute items but these should be minutiae. Do you have a congress template i.e. a written plan of every single minuscule step that needs to be taken? If you don't then you should draw one up. But times opposite and then start putting names opposite each item. Also, for an event like yours there's a sense of goodwill because it is based on a not-for-profit ideology so you should consider deepening the involvement of the participants in organising the congress. Your demographic includes some very talented and skilled people in a range of areas that would be helpful to you. Of course, you may prefer to keep it solo famillia as they say

Firstly we have a team of over 30 people involved in the weekend in some form or another so we are well covered on that side of things

Secondly, do you mind if I ask if you have ever organised something like this yourself? While your comments are all very well thought out in my experience the real world practicalities make for a very different situation.

Trying to get things back to a positive conversation, do you mind if I ask which congresses you have been to yourself so far and what do you think worked best at those events?

Hi Westman

I thought Camina's contribution was positive and offered a useful perspective for promoters and organisers.

The intention of this forum was to enable people to comment on what worked for them as attendees at a congress. I hoped maybe organisers would be reading and adopt whatever was desirable and doable in their circumstances with their resources. It wasnt really intended to be a discussion on how to run a congress.

Congress participants probably dont really care very much about the logistical detail of running an event (although I agree with you that any well run event needs an evolving project plan) but participants certainly do care about the experience they get for their money.

Of the limited number of congresses I have attended in ireland and abroad, some have been run excellently, some less well, some have been stunning value, others less good value. My overiding impression is that each and every organiser has done the best they could with the resources and knowledge available to them at the time and that they have been committed to providing a high quality experience for attendees within financial constraints.

From your posts above I think you have very good cognitive knowledge of; project management, group management and interaction, froming teams and harnessing skills, learning and motor skill acquisition. You recommend many proven approaches and techniques we use in sports coach development and sports event management. I wonder, have we worked together in this area?  Do let me know as I am intrigued to know who you are. Best etc. Alastair Sutherland, Limerick

Yo!  Lots of stuff already covered in the first few posts: yet again an interesting thread has emerged. 

Heres what makes/breaks a congress for me.

Music.  Slow - medium until about 10.30 at least.   Breaks of slow stuff in between the fast stuff too. This ensures its for everyone, as the night goes on , not just the superfit.   And a few classics in the mix, modern isnt always the same as better.   Cluster the music, so 8 salsa songs, 4 bachata, 1 misc, back to Salsa with Reggatron coming into the mix at 2am or later.    If the DJ gets it wrong its the difference between a great congress party and a mediocre one.

Good ratio of sexes.  ( from my perspective 60-40 girl-boy split would be ideal, but in reality even 70-30 would keep most salceras from being off their feet to long ).  I was at a congress where some of the classes were attended primarily by fellas.  Bleurgh!  Shudder !

Well labeled doors.  Doesnt sound like much, but in some congresses the rooms are well spaced out, and if its your first time there you're turning up late without them.    A simple "Room C is upstairs + second door to the left" and some direction arrows are a must.

Space.  On the dancefloor, not so important, but in the classrooms, being able to see the instructor and breathe is a major plus no?  I've seen in some congresses a small raised platform is used, thats not such a bad idea where class size is overcrowded.

A chill out room.   Somewhere to just sit relax and either take in the previous lesson or sip your water slowly while pondering what class to do next.  Heaven.

Air conditioning or some really really big open windows.    Nuff said.

As already stated, the lack of a programme isnt a big deal for me, I know some people who spend days planning their weekend, 'must go to this class', 'cant miss that one', 'want to do this for certain'.   Seriously who cares?  If you turn up on Friday or Saturday morning it will take most people 10 - 50 seconds to scan the programme, and another minute to mark out their day plan.  The plan then gets thrown away after the first day, cos 'Fred recommended this guy', 'Jane is too nervous to try this without backup', the ever common: 'God, I'm knackered, I couldn't do that last Reggatron class if you paid me!' or the classic 'Is that blood? '

Camina, what you say is pretty interesting.   Complete original movement?   Without causing injury etc?   Even the cuban instructional stuff I've seen is heavily choreographed, though circular.   Math is a bad thing?  Math is a good thing, but counting to 8 isnt really math is it?  Its more a way for people who cant hear the pa pa pa - pa pa  to get started dancing.   One of the benefits constantly heralded about dancing is its benefit to memory.  No?

It gets a little exasperating after a while where people go on and on about how much better on2/cuban is to one1, how it fits better with the music etc etc.   Shall I be so converted?  The world might make the so, yet strangely I hope not.  As you say dance is feeling.  If people dance on1 and feel good, and look good then thats its job done imo    Learning salsa does appear to be a test of memory sometimes, sure, but I look at it as more learning the words of a new language.    Once you have the basics of a language, you can interchange words, play on words, and a master can even make up nonsense words and have them automatically become part of the language.   Likewise in Salsa once this occurs its no longer a test of memory for the student, but an extension of who he/she is.   As a cuban dancer instructor told a class of rather puzzled men at a congress last year: 

'I cannot show you how to dance, I can show you how I dance, once you know how I dance it is up to you to make it your own.  This will be your style.'

Tc4n,
/H

- Edited by Hugh1a on 25/07/2009 at 04:22

'I cannot show you how to dance, I can show you how I dance, once you know how I dance it is up to you to make it your own.  This will be your style.'

Love that quote!

when I in China we alwasy has a  place to go with good music and big space for all morning and evening everybody can join adn daily dance .and pay a regular fee witch is not too much .lots members like gym.

I think will be good diea to organize this in dublin.

Mike, you asked:

do you mind if I ask if you have ever organised something like this yourself? While your comments are all very well thought out in my experience the real world practicalities make for a very different situation.

Yes, I have and I do, every year. Currently, am managing the running of three similar type events (not dance to). All of these take place year on year and they are all at various stages of concurrent project planning and implementation. So, I'm used to keeping many things on the go.

Cf my earlier posts for what works well.

Alastair, nope we haven't worked together.

Hugh, excellent advice, a very well thought-out post! The only thing with which I might take issue is the idea that a teacher: '... cannot show you how to dance, I can show you how I dance, once you know how I dance it is up to you to make it your own.  This will be your style.' Though I think that you mean it in an allegorical sense in which case it sits fine with me but...if what you mean is literal then I would definitely take issue but that's for another thread.

Lindachen-I like your idea!!!