Hey Hugh,

I agree with you I love shines, I think they really free you up to dance.

in fact now and then i've tried to dance a whole track (at the side) on my own to shines, both i've learned and made up on the spot, using the music.

I think they are an essential part of the mambo/salsa dance in a way that they give you more confidence and let you play with the music more. I'm sure you have also seen people who dance in close hold all the time connected to their partner just doing Move after move after move after move, I personally used to dance like this in the early days, but once I became more confident and learned how to listen and use the music by watching, listening to others and taking classes I became a HUGE fan of the Shine''

I think however there are correct times within a dance on when and where to do them and everyone who wants to do them will hear or feel within a dance/song when that time is.

The connection is broken but only physically as eye contact is a MUST in all dancing otherwise it's like you are either dancing to yourself, or what I seem to notice a lot is,  people seem to dance to the floor or their shoes and don't look their partner in the eye. Shines are fun but sadly I see a lot of people take Shines / Styling classes but then never practice them or use them on the dance floor them seem to just like taking classes, but whats the point if you are not going to take something from that class to use. I'm not saying copy exactly what you learned, I personally take bits of classes, also stuff from you tube and also by watching other dancers and try incorporate that into my own dancing and change it to my style.

I have a few people who I watch for shines who i also chat with and sometimes we make them up together for fun, Patrick, Louis, Laura, Tom, Fintan, Jon, Hellen, Katya.

I may be rambling and since I was called away to a meeting half way through this I forget what i said, so in conclusion, Shines are great and an essential part of the dance, they give you freedom, confidence and I believe make you a better dancer.

Hi Hugh,

ive come out of hiding...  

I agree with Davey. For me, shines are as much a part of the dance as partnerwork, and practicing them will actually not only increase your confidence solo, but also allow you to style within your partnerwork. But never loose the connection with your partner or the music. And remember, its not all about footwork. 99%* of looking good goes on above your feet move your body, then you are dancing.

Yes we make up shines for fun, I do half a mesure, Davey does the other half, and so on, the results can be quite funny sometimes

*not an actual statistic

ah but i've doing alot of dancing in crowded dance floors lately... shines aren't seen then, so should they be done ? and moving away from your partner at all could lose you your space that you so desperately need to finish out your dance moves.  Face to face shines like body rolls are fine as they are seen and take no space up.

 Is your ability to do shines halfed by a crowded room ? or no matter how crowded do whatever shine you want.

(obvious answers: small steps needed, safety is key when styling legs in crowds)

You have to read every situation, and adapt accordingly, you dont have to move very far from your partner to do your shines, in fact, you should probably stay roughly as far away as you would for open hold, but this does depend on what you are doing. you shouldnt loose your space, because most people should and will respect your space. there are always exceptions of course.

the main risk in a crowded room is getting bumped, hit, or even tripped up. So partnerwork, or shines, if its crowded, youve got to limit your fast sharp punchy moves, kicks, flares, multiple spins ect. My advice would be to always keep your feet close to the floor, by which i mean, do not lift them too high,  this makes you easier to trip, and more likey to get tangled up in someone else. So glide, rather than march. As you said, the obvious answer: The safety of you and your partner is the most important thing. Personally, if its really crowded, i keep everything tiny, simple, and smooth. A really important thing is, spacial awareness, many people dont check before sending themselves or there partners careering into a crazy pattern. Just look around, and as always, do not be afraid to abandon a move, if its not going to work, if theres no space, or you think it might endanger you or someone else,just stop it.

so short answer: Yes, you will be limited by space, you just have to read the situation and adjust your shines accordingly. if its crowded, leave out the back flips and spinning heel kicks

and dont worry about being seen, you are dancing for you partner, not for the rest of the room.

i hope this is some help

"and dont worry about being seen, you are dancing for you partner, not for the rest of the room."

- Fair enough

Okay, thanks

Theres some good advice in the threads above, its strange that the line quoted by LL above seems to be the opposite of the general message of the thread?  I mean do we really need more dancers blissfully unaware of the other dancers around him whilst doing shines?    Its so annoying sometimes, taking a lady out, perhaps a newbie, and find that though she + I obey stay within a small crucifix, other dancers, often very good dancers technically, just ignore the floor and use whatever space they need to pull of the flashiest moves.   Went dancing quite recently, and the amount of times I had to block a dancer with my arm, take an elbow in the shoulder ( thank goodness for reverse XBL   ) or simply abort a move, due to dancers with the attitude "hey I'm good, you should just get out of my way" (or rather not be there to begin with) - was numerous   

One thing a former instructor of mine once said which really resonated:  "if you dance with just the intention of looking good and making your partner look good, you may or may not succeed, but there will always be better dancers out there, IF however you take a lady out with the intention of keeping her safe, and do so, she will sense your intention, enjoy herself and rarely refuse another request to dance, even if all you know is cross body lead"    Yes, I know this advice should be taken with a pinch of salt (and should be spoken with a French accent ) but on the whole I believe it to be true.

Glide rather than march?  LOL, I was talking to a fellow from Cork recently who did TKD before taking up Salsa who remarked how easy it was for him to pick up salsa after doing martial arts,  the patterns require the same techniques and its very true    Back flips dont work and spinning heel kicks?  Like in real life, those things are best left for the movies, be it "Step up" or ummm something with Jet Li? ("Prodigal Son" comes to mind )

I was wondering though, whether there should be more of a combination in terms of shines e.g. when both partners body roll, or double spin, or simply suzy-q together, it tends to look awesome if done in sync, so it had me thinking that maybe the connection there - leader matching the follower or follower matching the leader in terms of style or content might be relevant?

Tc4n/H.

- Edited by Hugh1a on 20/09/2010 at 08:59

"Theres some good advice in the threads above, its strange that the line quoted by LL above seems to be the opposite of the general message of the thread?  I mean do we really need more dancers blissfully unaware of the other dancers around him whilst doing shines?"

I think you misunderstood me here hugh. you should always be aware of everyone and everything going on around you, just dont worry about other people seeing your shines etc. So, be aware of whats going on, but dont bring the girl onto the floor to be an accessory to you dancing. Bring her out there to show her a good time, and have a good time yourself.

Unfortunately there will always be people who feel they own as much of the floor at they want, or just take it up because of lack of control. They can be dangerous. If i encounter such an individual, I usually just move somewhere safer, if its an option. Its not worth the hassle, dance should be about love not confrontation in my opinion. If theres nowhere to go, then keep going, be the better man.

I would say any advice youve gotten in a french accent is good advice

about your last point, yes, shines in sync are nice, and sometimes they just happen magically, maybe 2 people interpret the same piece of music the same way , or are dancing on the same instrument etc. It works well for the techniques youve mentioned, but once we get into the teritory of shines which are ad lib, it is more difficult. But it is possible to create the same style or effect even while doing different techniques. But again, i would say this is more about musical interpretation, and a little bit of luck